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Carriers are not carriers

#11
(07-17-2014, 10:27 AM)MarioMihokovic Wrote: It's like you're reading our wishlist...did it leak somewhere? Smile . For later updates there are initial plans to add some more ships and resizes...

Please elaborate on this, like adfditional fighter squads?
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#12
Oh the plans they have, the list so big, far too large to ever show. But worry not, one day it will begin, a deluge of screw rhyming this last word, pure awesome!
Feel free to watch my beta testing streams, they're boring, but hey, beta testing excitement!!!! http://www.twitch.tv/fujibayashiryou And remember, CLANNAD IS LIFE! Check out Rockleetist's debut original https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce2Y6UDa...e=youtu.be
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#13
Oh good I enjoy my fighters running about, just need MOAR!
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#14
Wishlist is indeed scary, but you can't imagine how awesome stuff there are in it... From features ideas, to concept changes, to entire expansion ideas... madness Smile
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#15
The current real world Carriers are far from defenseless, but not exactly offensive powerhouses aside from their aircraft. The US Nimitz Class is a good example, they have an ample amount of defensive weaponry to shoot down missiles and hostile aircraft but lack the ability to directly engage other ships. They're also huge and not very maneuverable.

Personally how I'd handle it would be to leave the current Carriers as they are and reclassify them as Battlecarriers, and most importantly remove their ability to repair their fighters, requiring them to dock at a Station or Planet for their fighters to be repaired.

Add in a new type of Carrier like has been described in this thread that are big, slow, have a ton of hull/shields, LOTS of troopers, increased radar range, more fighter capacity, a small number of weapons with low battery capacity/recharge, and give ONLY that type of Carrier the ability to repair it's fighters. Maybe add in some bonuses to allied ships like increased accuracy and shield resistances and you've got the perfect flagship. That would give the current Carriers their use as frontline combat ships augmented by fighter wings for a short time, and the real Carriers as the ultimate command ships for fleets when they get added.
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#16
This is a game. The primary consideration in a game ship design should be 'is it fun to play with it?' The gameplay with a life-like carrier would be like this: you stop your ship after detection of enemies but far outside their weapons range, then launch fighters, and while maintaining a distance, direct fighter wings to appropriate targets. I guess you could have fighter wings with different capabilities: bombers, fighters, electronic warfare.

Is this fun? I guess it depends on what you like. I am partial to ship-to-ship slug fest of wooden man-of-wars. So remote battle control doesn't appeal to me as much.

As to the question of 'will there be a need for a battle-carrier ever?', I think it depends on the prevaling warfare conditions. Today, conditions are such that huge specialized supercarriers are viable (for USN): almost complete awareness afforded by networks of radar and satellites, unparalled economic superiority to dispatch carrier groups consisting of a number of ships, relative ineffectiveness of chemically propelled artillery, high effectiveness of small bombs/missiles carried by small aircrafts, etc. So you can send an expensive group of specialized ships to locations where you know they will be effective.

If these prevailing environmental/technological boundary conditions change, the nature of viable warships will change as well. So if we ever go into space and politics/warwafe extend there (and they will), detection/communication may fall behind ship mobility so that you would have to scatter some of your ships. Then I think we could see battle-carriers: ships with all capabilities packed into single hull.

Will ship-to-ship slug fest ever come back? My guess is probably not. Given that the modern technology packs so much firepower into small packages, which can be delivered by small crafts, it doesn't make sense to bring a huge ship to deliver these ordinances to the enemy. But I could be proven wrong - I don't have a crystal ball that tells me what technology will be developed in the future.
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#17
(10-01-2014, 10:28 PM)nyancat Wrote: This is a game. The primary consideration in a game ship design should be 'is it fun to play with it?' The gameplay with a life-like carrier would be like this: you stop your ship after detection of enemies but far outside their weapons range, then launch fighters, and while maintaining a distance, direct fighter wings to appropriate targets. I guess you could have fighter wings with different capabilities: bombers, fighters, electronic warfare.

Is this fun? I guess it depends on what you like. I am partial to ship-to-ship slug fest of wooden man-of-wars. So remote battle control doesn't appeal to me as much.

While I can understand your point of view, I'd figure that's where the big boys like the Dreadnoughts come into play. However, I feel like the carriers should be equally as beefy, but fit the opposite style of play for variety.

There's a few good examples of carriers that could be used in semi-direct combat, like Sins of a Solar Empire. You could have ship systems that operated like cloak does in SG2 that gave buffs and bonuses to your fleet and fighters. While you could win a fight being super lazy, you'd probably take far more casualties than if you worked your skills well.

Though, the idea of a "Battle Carrier" is not a disliked one. One of my favorite tabletop games Firestorm Armada uses such ships. While their primary damage is from their fighter wings, they do have some large batteries to fight, but their damage output is not as good without their fighters (so it kind of balances out with the Dreadnoughts overall).
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#18
So I was playing Startrek Online and flying around in my Recluse when I took inspiration from a feature for Carriers there.

Bigger Carriers can launch not only more wings, but larger craft as well. What that could translate to here is give all current Fighters wings of 3 craft, have certain Gunships available as wings of 2, and some Corvettes as single ship wings. The tradeoff would be that one Corvette may have more firepower but if you lose it you'd be down one wing until you dock at a Station or Planet to replace it, as opposed to docking your Fighter wing in flight for repairs if you lose one or two of them. Gunships are already fairly fragile so even with 2 per wing you'd have to really keep tabs on them to be able to dock in time to repair vs. losing it and having to buy a new one to replace it.

Would this even be possible? I know in the Titan Osiris mod thread in the Steam workshop the mod creator was talking about maybe making the Squire into a launchable wing but I haven't tried that mod so I don't know if he actually accomplished that goal or not.
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#19
I think the solution/problem here comes with how the fleets work. In order to make a true standoff carrier viable, you'd have to have a supporting fleet to provide close support, screening, scouting and protection. To do that you'd need a whole new set of fleet commands.

Did anyone ever play Nexus: The Jupitor Incident? You could assign ships to defend the carrier in that, they would circle it, and the AI would respond only to direct threats. Maybe that'd be the way to do it.
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#20
(10-03-2014, 11:46 AM)7thGalaxy Wrote: I think the solution/problem here comes with how the fleets work. In order to make a true standoff carrier viable, you'd have to have a supporting fleet to provide close support, screening, scouting and protection. To do that you'd need a whole new set of fleet commands.

Did anyone ever play Nexus: The Jupitor Incident? You could assign ships to defend the carrier in that, they would circle it, and the AI would respond only to direct threats. Maybe that'd be the way to do it.

I really love this idea. How about using some of your captured ships to do that job ? And to top it off, you will have to fit them with guns and ammunition and appoint captains for each one. Total number of your own fleet to consist of your main ship plus 3 more ships to do the protection. Of course salary should be paid to those commanding your other ships as well. As you said this will require a new set of UI and commands , however if they are scripted to just protect and respond to direct threats, and staying in close proximity to the protected ship would just do it for me.
I do hope this sounds right to you all Smile
We cannot solve our problems with the same level of thinking, that created them
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